pre WW1 houses?
pre WW1 houses?
Hi all, I was hoping to get some input/opinion on some houses listed right now on ebay. The sellers name is noelbob, listing # for 1 of the houses is 141718689868. You can then click on the right to see his other items. He has 4-5 house he says are pre WW1, saw them in a Montgomery Ward catalog? They look like many other houses I've seen, made in Japan, early 30's or even late 20's. I remember Ted stating that the Japanese didn't start making the houses until around 1928. Thanks for any answers, I appreciate it...Colleen
Re: pre WW1 houses?
Colleen, Tom noticed this, too. The Japanese made candy box houses for decades before 1928, but that's the earliest they put holes in them for lights. Some folks say 1929. This add is completely wrong. He may have seen a CANDY house with a similar shape in a pre WW1 "Monkey Ward" catalog. But THIS LIGHTED house is post-1928 house fer sure. Interesting that he doesn't bother to include a scan of the catalog page to prove his impossibly early date for the thing
Please don't let ebay sales pitches define your reality.
Paul
Please don't let ebay sales pitches define your reality.
Paul
Re: pre WW1 houses?
I am going to post a letter that I have written to a few friends this morning about this very subject. The sad fact Colleen is such unsubstantiated statements do the hobby a disservice and will be quoted as fact. If it's written so it must be so, isn't it?
This letter was written. in response to Antoinette's response to an earlier letter she wrote warning me to "tone it down". She had been the "diplomatic" front runner for our beloved Ted's rants for many years and was and is still devoted to his memory. As should we all be. He gave us this hobby more than any other though he was not alone.
Ted would have seen him as "The Enemy!" And in no uncertain terms. The
listing is FULL of errors. The people buying these are NOT impressed with
someone's ignorant rants. I have NOT been in contact with him but discussed
it with Kathi last night and she pretty much agreed.
Look at how much work Ted went to authenticate his findings. NEVER
falling into the trap they had to be made earlier. BUT for one thing Ted knew
how small "the grid" was way back when perhaps more than I do. I REMEMBER
when rural electrification went in in 1949 and until then NO ONE had "ready
kilowatt". Even still grandma had some of the early printies to arrange as
a village. Dad remembered that when she first got them she strung a garland
of them across the middle of the kitchen by putting up a string from corner
to corner crossing in the middle and hanging them from the string some way.
But they were unlighted for years until after REA. Actually grandpa had put
in a small gas powered light plant sometime before so the house was wired
for light shortly before it came through and I remember we would be in the
dark while he went out to put gasoline in the generators engine. So we sat in the
kitchen in the dim light of the gas stove grandma would light so we could
see something. But before that I remember Christmases with the Coleman gas
lanterns which every farm had. They had a distinct gentle hissing sound and
grandpa would have to go around with the pump and pump more air into them
and the light would come up and the hissing get louder.
Dad told me about having a candle lighted Christmas tree but I never
experienced that. Instead I can still see grandpa lighting regular white
and red tapers that surrounded the white sheet around the tree with all the presents
around sparkling in the half light of the Coleman lanterns, while grandma
scotched at him warning him to be careful or "You'll catch your sleeve on
fire." He pretty much ignored her. But the candles DID make it a magical
scene with all the mica on the presents..
All this to say that Ted's careful and exhausting research proved what he
already knew. Electricity did NOT get into every hamlet and town until the
very late 20's or early 30's. Before WWI only the largest cities would
have had it and not everyone would have it installed.
This isn't a matter of being diplomatic. Noelbob is perpetrating falsehoods
and he has to know that. I say SHOW US THE PROOF which of course he cannot
do as his Data is non-existent.
Anyway in response to your suggestion of trying to correct him I will quote what
an old engineer friend once said to me. "If you have to educate someone to
argue with them, don't argue!"
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Antoinette" <antoinet@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 5:41 AM
To: "Tom Hull" <lake@ruraltel.net>
Subject: P.S.
Tom, I just read Paul's posting on the cardboard house forum, and he sounds
as indignant as you about noelbob's listings. Clearly I'm too forgiving
about
this. Have you tried writing the seller and correcting him? (I would
love to
hear Ted's thoughts on these ....)
This letter was written. in response to Antoinette's response to an earlier letter she wrote warning me to "tone it down". She had been the "diplomatic" front runner for our beloved Ted's rants for many years and was and is still devoted to his memory. As should we all be. He gave us this hobby more than any other though he was not alone.
Ted would have seen him as "The Enemy!" And in no uncertain terms. The
listing is FULL of errors. The people buying these are NOT impressed with
someone's ignorant rants. I have NOT been in contact with him but discussed
it with Kathi last night and she pretty much agreed.
Look at how much work Ted went to authenticate his findings. NEVER
falling into the trap they had to be made earlier. BUT for one thing Ted knew
how small "the grid" was way back when perhaps more than I do. I REMEMBER
when rural electrification went in in 1949 and until then NO ONE had "ready
kilowatt". Even still grandma had some of the early printies to arrange as
a village. Dad remembered that when she first got them she strung a garland
of them across the middle of the kitchen by putting up a string from corner
to corner crossing in the middle and hanging them from the string some way.
But they were unlighted for years until after REA. Actually grandpa had put
in a small gas powered light plant sometime before so the house was wired
for light shortly before it came through and I remember we would be in the
dark while he went out to put gasoline in the generators engine. So we sat in the
kitchen in the dim light of the gas stove grandma would light so we could
see something. But before that I remember Christmases with the Coleman gas
lanterns which every farm had. They had a distinct gentle hissing sound and
grandpa would have to go around with the pump and pump more air into them
and the light would come up and the hissing get louder.
Dad told me about having a candle lighted Christmas tree but I never
experienced that. Instead I can still see grandpa lighting regular white
and red tapers that surrounded the white sheet around the tree with all the presents
around sparkling in the half light of the Coleman lanterns, while grandma
scotched at him warning him to be careful or "You'll catch your sleeve on
fire." He pretty much ignored her. But the candles DID make it a magical
scene with all the mica on the presents..
All this to say that Ted's careful and exhausting research proved what he
already knew. Electricity did NOT get into every hamlet and town until the
very late 20's or early 30's. Before WWI only the largest cities would
have had it and not everyone would have it installed.
This isn't a matter of being diplomatic. Noelbob is perpetrating falsehoods
and he has to know that. I say SHOW US THE PROOF which of course he cannot
do as his Data is non-existent.
Anyway in response to your suggestion of trying to correct him I will quote what
an old engineer friend once said to me. "If you have to educate someone to
argue with them, don't argue!"
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Antoinette" <antoinet@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 5:41 AM
To: "Tom Hull" <lake@ruraltel.net>
Subject: P.S.
Tom, I just read Paul's posting on the cardboard house forum, and he sounds
as indignant as you about noelbob's listings. Clearly I'm too forgiving
about
this. Have you tried writing the seller and correcting him? (I would
love to
hear Ted's thoughts on these ....)
Re: pre WW1 houses?
I just spent about a half hour looking at EBAY am appalled not only at the prices of some vintage Christmas items--but how many errors there are in the "putz house" department across multiple listings and sellers--Italian houses described as being made in Japan; Japanese houses are classified as Dollys; Dolly houses being classified as German, and so forth. Wow.
Re: pre WW1 houses?
Yer right! It is pretty bad out there. I have given up giving these people advise gently or otherwise because at least the one I contacted about her HEAVILY modified and "Remuddled" somewhat rare church was just that and pointed the seller to Teds archived web site and I was told to mind my own business! In no uncertain terms,(This is the gist not exactly what she really said) So I GIVE UP - I think they know better but sales are all to some people. FORTUNATELY I was able to talk a friend out of buying it as he was fascinated and had NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT. Small wonder as it had been pimped out pretty nicely. Tom
Re: pre WW1 houses?
I have also seen the listings and I wanted to contact "noelbob" myself. The real sad part of this are the "newbies" who are just getting into the hobby will be so excited by his pre-WW1 rhetoric and thus start a bidding frenzy.
"To all that is small"...
www.facebook.com/groups/nutz4putz
www.facebook.com/groups/nutz4putz
Re: pre WW1 houses?
This is one of the things I love about this forum, the incredible wealth of information and wisdom. It is one of the things that keeps me coming back for more and to continue with building houses myself.
Thank you all,
Lee
Thank you all,
Lee
Re: pre WW1 houses?
I know these houses are not pre ww 1, but wouldn't the raffia fence on the printie one date it to late 20's or so? I like it but think maybe it has been added to with new Snow tex - can't really tell for sure. I have no idea what a fair price would be.
Re: pre WW1 houses?
From what I gleaned from PapaTeds site and my many conversations with him the EARLIEST reference to the light houses is 1929. They were small and somewhat tentative like they were feeling out the market place. These types were offered in the Sears and Montgomery Ward catalogs in 1929. In fact they had paper/card plugs in the light hole and were offered (in sets of 8) as being either for lighted villages or as candy treat boxes. So clearly these had to be early when they were uncertain as to how they would be received by the buying public. Candy boxes from Japan had been on the market for years and there was a limit to how much those would penetrate the marketplace and they were reaching out in a different direction with the lighted village. If it was well received (and it was) Think of the possibilities! It was around this time that enough houses in America had electricity to make it possible for such things to sell and they did.
My grandparents had Christmas trees on the farm with lighted candles well into the twenties. But it would be another 30 years before rural electrification came through in the late 40's and early 50's. and they had electrically lighted trees and villages.
I still have her old White Silk set C6 light string that she used with her houses.
My grandparents had Christmas trees on the farm with lighted candles well into the twenties. But it would be another 30 years before rural electrification came through in the late 40's and early 50's. and they had electrically lighted trees and villages.
I still have her old White Silk set C6 light string that she used with her houses.
